They are the same size which is the size of a Mark I or Jet Fighter Pilot Knife. Here you will find information and tips on outdoor activities, wilderness safety and survival, equipment, first aid, health, and other related items of interest to hikers, backpackers, and other outdoor enthusiasts. In most of the places that Ive come across a Klein knife, it was either a military electricians knife or for another handyman. 5684: This is the WW II USMC blade marked knife in the Hand marked on the I cant glean a date of manufacture from the stamp. Can't recall seeing. Knife. 5665 J86: Prototype dated 3/25/1942 made for the Army Thanks for the feedback. ). He started importing and selling German-made knives to his U.S. audience. Contact the Ontario Knife Company. The pommel screw in the middle looks to be steel, but nut is brass. USMC Raider reproduction with fine pewter handle. The one on the left there is a bevel at the top of the grip. In all other ways, it totally resembles the pilots survival knife distributed to the military in the 1950s. The first Ka-bar knife was manufactured by the Tidioute Cutlery Company (in Pennsylvania) which came into play in 1897. From DIY approaches to unconventional models and even taking the knife to experts, one of these methods will get you a proper timeline of your knife. Dont expect to find an expert that will date your knife for free. Many GIs bought these knives and carried them during the war in Vietnam, including my father, who bought on in the exchange in Takhli, Thailand, and wore it during missions over North Vietnam. Its total length is 292mm (11 5/8 inches). Show me your knife, and I'll tell you who you are. It has a decent leather scabbard with no hole in the tip and leather cords intact, as well as the stone with similar markings as others Ive seen. Dustin- Great information! Its blade is double-edged and has a length of 170mm (6 11/16 inches). What are the unique features of the Air Force Survival Knife, as outlined in the U.S. Government specifications? by jerryd6818 Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:06 am, Return to Camillus Cutlery Collector's Forum, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. The Ontario Knife Company identifies this knife as the 499 Air Force Survival Knife on their website. Now, we know already that this, Read More How to Tell If A 1918 Trench Knife Is Real (5+ Unique Methods)Continue. apart. Made to cut overhead upside In August '61, a 5" blade was specified. These were in issue up to 2000 as for as Im aware. As the development and testing process began to take shape, updates to the original specification documents were published. flat sided pommel to be used for hammering prior to the adoption of the hex All About Pocket Knives is a knife related resource center for buying, selling, researching, and discussing all things knives, Post St Louis with Indian Trail grooved bone and large rivets. The knife has been in continuous service with the Department of Defense for over sixty years. If possible, seek the opinion of multiple experts before making a solid decision. Plus the rubber is just about the best thing for keeping a knife grippy even after you've gotten into messy parts of processing game. The condition of the knife is worn, but otherwise good. In the guides to dating Schrade knives, dating kissing crane knives, and knowing what era your ka-bar knife is from, there were a lot of years to deal with. The condition of the leather sheath is what would one would expect to be from late 1960s to early 1970s vintage as it was found at the time, which has not degraded since. If the blade measures 6 inches and it is an original, then it may have been manufactured before 1961. and it's variations check out Gary Cunningham's Bayonet Points # 8 right here Bayo Points 8 Hi. Thus, finding ways of reducing the bulk of the Aviation Life Support Equipment (ALSE) assisted in the overall weight considerations for flying. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. It may not display this or other websites correctly. if it was in Vietnam it must have been with some other folks not the US Above that it simply says "Army Air Forces". knife that was adopted. The original parkerization is worn a bit and it has been sharpened, and there was some paint that mostly has chipped off. It looks exactly like the survival knife from the air force. (222) $59.00. I have had this since about 1978 and Im sure the knife itself is a few years older than that. Boy Scout Knife, Camillus Manufacturer, Whittler's Knife, used, blades in great condition but shank shows wear (CSE06) Please refer to the pictures for condition grading. The Camillus knives went to the war (WWI & WWII), was handcrafted for some presidents, and lived more than 100 years before the company shut down. You also have to consider that contracts were negotiated for 5-inch hunting knives prior to the release and approval of the drawings for the Mark 1. Late 1944 production through till contracts were completed or cancelled in 1945, you find those knives more alike or much more similar characteristics. the knife is a Camillus model number 5733. Your email address will not be published. The primary document that describes the various features of the Air Force Survival Knife is Military Specification MIL-K-8662 (16 October 1953). Thanks again for writing about this knife and taking the time to research it and share your findings. Already bankrupt, the brands assets were bought by the Robinson Knife Company who flipped the assets to Cole National in 1966. This is usually where I first look at when dating knives. Those who do not currently own one should purchase one. Like it was with dating kissing crane knives, establishing the era that a Ka-bar knife came from can be a bit challenging. At a time like this, when not all dealers can be trusted, you need to be on guard. The others that I've seen have the later arched tang stamp. Even if the Ontario Knife Company discontinues their production and the DoD phases them out of their inventories, the knife will be around for commercial purchase. With areas like Germany, Italy, China, and the rest of the world getting the praises for coming up with truly timeless knives, the USA takes the glory for this one. with steel domed rivets. The 7-inch knife was not military issued knife. The Marine Corps then also renamed the knife the USMC Mark 2 Combat Knife. Woolworths, S3388: When the Marines formed the ParaMarines they needed a I have little knowledge on the Use of it in Vietnam, that said, I cant find much details. The pilots, survival, sheathed, hunting knife shall consist of a metal blade with a leather grip, riveted butt plate, guard, guard and end plates, leather sheath with a pocket for containing the sharpening stone, nylon laces, and a metal sheath protector to prevent the tip of the knife from penetrating the bottom or underside of the sheath. These are the remaining items that were left in the Camillus factory show I have a MK2 copy that I bought in the US Army AAFES exchange in West Germany in the mid-1980s. factory reference collection. Orig. During the war, they produced over 17 million knives of various type and spec for the military, more than any other knife maker. Consequently, the knife blade being reduced from six inches to five inches allowed it to retain some of the qualities necessary to carry out survival tasks, but small enough that it could be easily stowed on an aircrewmans vest without causing interference for aircrews trying to carry out their duties while flying. Camillus Cutlery Company won the contract and made the first production run on Jan. 27, 1943. Our fellow member Frank Trzaska wrote about these knives most recently, I think, in his February 2014 article in Knife World entitled "The USAAC 5" Hunting Knife". If there is anything else you want to know which I missed, do let me know in the comments section or reach out via the contact page. I have one that my grandfather made for his brother in ww2 for the army air corps. with Rosewood grips. No matter the reason for wanting to date that blade, these methods will get you an accurate year or an era, at worst. My mother believes my father only used it as a scout leader in the late 60s to early 70s and it has been in a drawer ever since. Today, its time to date the Cattaraugus knife to a specific era and see what beauty you have, Read More How to Date a Cattaraugus Knife (5 Methods Explained)Continue, I have written different guides on how to date different knives to a specific era but this one is different. Before this requirement, knives of several types were procured by the individual branches of the military and dispensed to their members. Otherwise, have someone who does. You would often find knife collectors and enthusiasts who know a lot about these blades at knife shows. Both marked CAMILLUS over N.Y. but the one on the left the font is larger. I have sent you an email to see how I may be able to help. What is interesting is the knife is called an Air force pilot survival knife. The leather for the grip will be cut into washers, 1/8 inch in thickness. While that might make it harder to identify what a true Ka-bar knife is, though, it is a blessing in disguise sometimes. I believe the two holes in the blade guard was to dummy cord the knife. These two knives are commonly identified as WW2 pilots knives. It isnt worth that much plus its actually a pretty good knife. Additionally, synthetic composite materials like Kevlar had not been fully integrated into aircraft construction until the late 1970s and 1980s. FYI, in case your interested, the Government specification sheath for this knife is still available. Thanks for sharing. Bone stag and CR guard made in 5665: Early 12/29/1939 prototype of the new Camillus design The one on the left is a 1972 and the one on the right has no date. Most of the information that I have collected about the knife comes from blogs and knife forums on the internet. The second question that arises concerning some of the features of this knife is the purpose of the two holes in the blade guard. The serrated spine on this knife is part of the functional requirements for this knife. brass pins holding stagged bone over black plastic liners. However, it was particularly designed for use by forces in need of a close combat knife, such as Airborne Units and Army Rangers, so these units received priority for the M3 at the start of . rivets, Kent Sportsman with etching and stagged bone and large When WWI and WWII came along, Adolph shifted the focus of the company to cater to U.S. soldiers and the Allied Forces. Some of the knives have no branch of service marking on them. A knife for sale on Frank Trzaska's site shows a sheath with the same care instructions stamped into it, with the knife keeper in a different location. Engineers. Marbles prototype: Super rare item. An unmarked prototype hunter with Stagged Rosewood and I had suspected that was the case but did not have any evidence. To recuperate some of the money that they had spent producing blades and knife components, Marble offered a civilian version of the knife to the public in 1961. You might get lucky and pick the right thing, but you could just as well get scammed of your money. The knife was originally designed in 1957 as a joint issue between the Navy Weapons Bureau and the Marbles Arms Company. We have over 75,000 pieces of Boy and Girl Scout Memorabilia to sell. Note the scabbards with and without sheet Buying via the links on CutsandCarves could earn us a commission on the sale. I have three of these babies from my flying days with the U. S. Navy. Ka-Bar knife with markings Step 1: Identifying the Markings Look around the knife for markings on the body. This knife was popular during the second world war and I will assume that so are the people who knew a lot about it. With the help Camillus knives are one of my most favorites knives to date. The sheath shall be made of leather in compliance with Federal Standard KK-L-271, The sheath leather shall be 8/64-inch-thick. the M3 pommel and guard to improve their knife and help conserve parts. Thus, the current standards, methods, and procedures were not necessarily applicable to the procurement process that brought this knife into existence. Not Adopted, Case and Catt got the Q knife and steel domed rivets but with a different grind from above. Both are Camillus but one has a 1" longer blade. down, risers and lines. Entertaining and informing. We were allowed to keep them when dicharged. Seems vagrant has an orange handled knife with a small blade protruding from it on picture #79. I do know that it has the serrated spine and in outward appearance may be an original except for the handle. Sent to the Jeffersonville Quartermaster, it is essentially a 6 Since Camillus is highlighted here, the bright blades were the initial production knives. Speechless Q31: An almost twin to item number two above but this one Camillus Tang Stamps and Dates (www.bladeforums.com) Camillus Tang Stamps circa 1915-1946 -A WORK IN PROGRESS (AAPK-All About Pocket Knives) . As best as can be ascertained, the two holes are used as lashing points for cordage for survival tasks in the field, such as creating a hasty spear. If you have any of those knives, it wouldnt be out of place to salute it for its commendable service. silver. While no one retailer has all the original catalogs anymore, some kept some of these books around. Don't know how durable or even if it is any good. In the early 2000s, the U.S. Army published requirements to private industry for an aviation survival knife to replace the aging Air Force Survival Knife. Camillus used different sized stamps on their MK1s, believe there were 3 distinct sizes. Listed here we will discuss a few items that The knives will be sold as a group only. blade with S numbers. For a knife that has been around for more than 120 years now, you also know that it would have changed hands a lot of times. This marking is post 1990 and is the current marking, it An interesting fact was that in 1944 the BuOrd wanted all the contractors to switch to the pommel to that provided on the PAL knives, it created a big stink because it required all sorts of adjustments on the assembly line and extra pressure on those existing contractors that actually made the pommel. Some shady knife enthusiasts might want to get the knife from you at a steal price or in a swap deal for something else. It was common for everything in a survival vest to have a lanyard. Camillus produced the knife with a 6-inch blade from 1959-1961. Only the same "Camillus N.Y." markings, either on the normally found pile or reverse side of the blade, or stamped on the Name side or front of the knife. Many people think this was when Adolph founded the Camillus knife company, but that is not so. That stamp is different than the one used earlier. This is it. I suspect it is Vietnam era from its condition. To make things more simple, the initial production of the 5-inch hunting knives were bright blades for most all contractors. I have a Valor #998 Japan Jet Pilot Knife utilized in Vietnam given to my uncle, who gave it to me. Otherwise, the serial number might not be able to do so much for you. The Camillus Cutlery company closed shop in 2007, only to be resurrected in 2009 by Acme United Corporation, which acquired the naming rights. in the handle grip from the looks of it. The 1954 update calls for the knife to have a sharpened clip point blade and an additional rivet to the sheath. It is further described as "Used in all types of emergency kits." It appears that in 2006, Ontario Knife Company became the current vendor to the DoD of the Jet Pilot Survival Knife under the National Stock Number (NSN): 7340-00-098-4327. The topic got side tracked here a little bit with the USAAC hunting knives, those with the fuller blade. After all, that is what they practically do for a living. My question is based upon the fact that the handle is not the leather disks type that Im used to seeing as Ive owned several, this knife in question has black plastic or rubber washers on the handle instead. This is what Camillus was thinking about at the end of the war, Two other bidders decided that the knife was worth at least 4X more than what I thought the knife was worth to me, so one of them has it. Dated 10/30/1941. I, too, have one that has a small Japan stamped on the blade at the hilt. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/295814-5-inch-hunting-and-sheath-knives/?hl=%2Bpilots+%2Bknife&do=findComment&comment=2377348, http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/111421-odd-camillus-usn-mark-1/?hl=%2Bpilots+%2Bknife&do=findComment&comment=830644, http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/200448-questions-on-a-bright-blade-camillus-mark-1/. Instead, he sought out a smaller cutlery brand in Camillus and joined the management team. The bit telltale difference is the sharpened false edge. If it comes with a sheath, there wont be a factory embossed stamp on it. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Another Kent with stagged Rosewood, brass pins and etched. The Air Force Survival Knife will be around for a very long time. Hi Bruce: The knives illustrated in Post #5 could had been fabricated in that transitional phase, or part of sample packs for the Navy salt spray tests, but just a theory. In this early production from the spring of 1943 through to the middle of 1944 is where you'll find all the variables or variations with in the Mark 1 knives. The blade design is different then the Anything you can tell me about its history? However, Barlows have been around for much longer than that and should be considered a bigger collectors item. the Above JPK and the Marbles in the 1953 to 1957 time frame. Production date date 3/25/1943. Great knife for camping or scouting I carried mine on walks in the woods. No date or manufacturer is stamped anywhere. brass rivets, Another Kent with stagged bone and small brass domed Quality knives and tools with lowest prices. and special units so many time we almost gave up the argument on the subject. Ive had a couple of the Camillus knives and they had the years indicated: 1975 and 1981. Folding Knives from Camillus Cutlery Folding Knives Handle Color Black Select from a variety of quality Camillus and Western folding knife styles and folding knives that include liner locks, lock backs and frame locks. Thank you, this is a very informative treatise on this knife. Interesting article. Suggestions, Questions, Comments, Concerns, Alerts, Etc Member Store Tips, Tricks & Instructions, Camillus Pilot Survival Knives [long or short], Re: Camillus Pilot Survival Knives [long or short]. Heres another variant knife that Frank Trzaska mentions in his 6/01/2002 knife knotes. this one, it should be a fantastic story to be uncovered one day. US Military utility multi tool knife, no lanyard. If you send me your email address I can send you photos. If you, Read More How to Date a Kissing Crane Knife (Both Old and New)Continue, Some of the best knives that we know today either came before any of the World Wars or were made because of one or both of those wars. Of course, they were sharp and most of them are older than us, but that doesnt mean we lost interest. It was in a jungle behind Officers housing on a Navy base, sealed inside an ammo can with some other items. by Colonel666 Sun May 26, 2013 1:43 am, Post Think of it this way, property markings came later in the assembly process only after a formal guidelines were established. Im assuming its ok to to refurbish if for no other reason than to halt any deterioration on the blade or otherwise but Ill admit Im not a knife collector or adventurer so this would be more about preserving value than repairing it for use. He believes these were ordered in 04/05/44. Most folks don't know The TL-29 electrician's knife was originally an issue item manufactured by the Camillus Cutlery Company. Both marked CAMILLUS over N.Y. but the one on the left the font is larger. We have many investment grade pieces available. This knife looks a lot This is an early Marbles design with a I assume was the same for my brethren in the fixed wing as well. Some Comments on the Design Features of the Air Force Survival Knife, Further Developments of the Air Force Survival Knife. camillus knife identification. Opening locked doors and smashing car windows. steel dome pins. Is this unusual? This military specification document would become the standard for further improvements and changes to the pilot survival knife throughout the years. A German himself, and having spent enough time in the U.S.A. to know the market landscape, this business venture was not difficult for him. Meet The Camillus Pro Staff Survivalists, Hunters, Military and more Camillus Design Partners Knives, machetes and tools designed by the best in the business Social Photos #camillus Acme United Corporation 1 Waterview Drive, Suite 200, Shelton, CT 06484 Thanks for all the photos.