Fyi both fuel pump rocker switches have momentary primes. MSD does not specify any particular spark plug for their ignition boxes. If you have RF and or EMI issues you need to correct them. *Possible delays due to Covid-19 click for more information. idles good, runs amazing. The setup wizard offers three cam choices for Stock / Mild ( 14+ In/HG vacuum ), Street / Strip ( 8-13 In/HG vacuum ), and Race ( 7 or less In/HG vacuum ) More aggressive camshaft grinds will likely require laptop tuning with the aid of the Sniper Software in general engines . Is that an expectable by-product of adding this relay? Figure out what it's not getting and the find out why. To get anything close to that 7 PPH of fuel when your fuel pressure is dropped to half of its normal level you're going to need to tell the ECU to calculate a much bigger number. But weve also introduced some leanness from 4-10 seconds. FE 390 that currently has a Pertronix distributor with the Ignitor 2 module. Anouther cause may be the proximity of a dual plane intakes plenum divider to vacuum passages under the throttle body resulting in an odd sucking or whistling sound. (Dont forget and then later wonder why it wont start!). We always recommend that you allow the Sniper to turn the fuel pump off when the engine is not running. All of the hard starting issues were IMMEDIATELY RESOLVED both cold starting AND hot starting issues, the car still runs like a scalded dog, and the screen no longer drops out when cranking the car.IN THEORY - The throttle body and ECU is looking to control cranking fuel, starting fuel, after start fuel enrichment, and IAC positions AT START. Thanks for the kind words, Tony. I need to get an answer to the question concerning the TPS. Ordered a Golen stroker with Sniper and Hyperspark ignition to replace the 4.2 in my 89. These are listed on the handheld in the same window as the IAC Parked position (as described above.) Probably 3-4 seconds, and rich after it does fire. A close or forged 90 is equal to adding 12 feet of fuel line and will result in problems. Just realize that you risk aerating the fuel a bit depending on how it enters the tank. This is a huge improvement over what we got initially. Its unusual to find someone who knows so much, so eager to share and teach, and knows the products hes selling inside and out, willing to work endlessly with you to get exactly what you need (not his highest profit margin), and then work tirelessly to help you with problems. Yes, I have fuel pressure. Price Point: $$, EFI Systems based on Alternatively, you may want to consider completely unplugging the power harness or disconnecting the switched power so that the ECU is not powered and wont deliver a fuel prime at all. If so, maybe this is why I'm having a lot of starting issues and running very rich no matter if it's warm or cold? By going with an aftermarket manifold you avoid that issue entirely.Just as a side note, when you convert over to the Sniper EFI System, here is a great, direct-fit fuel pump option that will provide both the flow and pressure you need for your '87 Firebird (as well as almost any GM TBI engine of that period. I've been running the super sniper 1250 on my 6.2 ls for several months now and am still fighting cranking issues. Hi Chris,Thank you so much for your quick response to my query. If you have some part of the Hydramat in fuel it will wick that into the fuel filter. Advanced throttle body injection systems capable of transmission control and more. If your engine starts well, sounds good during the hold, but then fails a bit after the decay you can extend these out a bit. Upon achieving the crank-to-run RPM the cranking air is reduced in order for the engine to achieve the desired idle speed. HP ECU's. Don't hesitate to call, nights and weekends included.). 2023 HOLLEY PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS, INC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. To be 100% honest I was having an issue prior and flooded it. I am having a 2 572 BBC being built for my boat. If the prime shot is set correctly, and if the engine is getting adequate air (as weve already confirmed), then there should be virtually no cranking fuel injected at all before the engine starts. *Possible delays due to Covid-19 click for more information. Or do as I do? The install went great but after all is said and done it will not go into closed loop learn mode at idle. Thanks. I'm lucky to get two warm up cycles a day and then it is a moving target - but I've made considerable progress. Full product line and accessories at excellent pricing. And 10 micron filter between the pump and throttle body. That delay is called After-Start Holdoff. . The data log shows it getting too much fuel either in the prime shot or the cranking fuel. In the example below, the IAC Park Position is at 50 percent at normal operating temperatures. Thanks. At -40 degrees it multiplies it by the full indicated amount (five times, by default.) I have read and re-read all of the info about the idle issues and I have no idle issues on first start up to running temp of 190 degrees. Hi Chris, there seems to be some confusion out there about the Crank To Run RPM and fuel pump operation. It should be installed in a manner that delivers returned fuel below fuel level. This happens with some carburetors on dual planes as well. Then I will provide an image of how this variable looks in the software. If you do not understand a step seek assistance. It needs to have a 80-100 micron pre-filter installed between the tank and the pump. I've never seen the shop I had install my Sniper hook up a lap top to the car. Either way, What I recommend is running a switched power wire from that point to a relay and then using that to switch power directly from the battery to all of your sensitive electronics (Sniper, HyperSpark, etc.). Does it matter if O2 sensor goes in drivers side with true duals?Thanks for spending your time helping us weekend mechanics. Capability Range: Moderate I'm on the cusp of ordering the Sniper for my 74 Corvette, but curious about he battery hook-ups since the battery is behind the drivers seat. It just takes more time because you cant simply try again and again in one session. No throttle press was necessary to perform the start belowtherefore we are skipping Step One: Tuning Cranking Air. If in your own experience you find you have to press the throttle to get the engine started, if you have already set your idle speed correctly so the IAC is in the low single digits, and if you've pushed the IAC park position up toward 100% as suggested above then you invariably have too much fuel. Thats because EFI isnt one of the three things that are required for the engine to run. 03-14-2018, 07:03 PM. :-), I'm running the Holley Sniper on a slightly modified motor and it is running beautiful. What this tells us: First, we dont have any huge problems. (Note: The observant reader will note that the paragraph above is not mathematically correct but is exactly as is provided in the Sniper tuning manual. If not, then the orientation of your O2 sensor is not your problem. It appears to be in throttle body? If you have any exhaust leaks between the combustion chamber and 18-24 after the sensor you are going to have problems. This page was generated at 05:08 PM. This is why most OEM EFI pumps are in the tank. Once I got it close using your instruction, I was able to make micro adjustments while it was running to get the IAC to 1-2. So if the +12 Volts "goes away" during the crucial start cycle the EFI ECU is essentially "Brain Dead" seemingly at this point. I have just finished installing my Holley Sniper to my 67 Camaro. Not some generic pump as some have speculated. First, remember that after-Start enrichment is not a fixed value. Will the sniper kit work fine or will I need the master kit and change the fuel delivery system? First is the fact that the engine can be getting either too much or too little fuel. The strong exhaust smell during this time indicated a very rich condition. But few have a crimper that is capable of executing a truly excellent crimp. At least not right away (after time-delay set in relay). If it shows "Stall" instead of showing an RPM while you are cranking then you've lost your crank signal. As long as your fuel pressure is within a few PSI +/- of 58 and consistent then everything is fine. Words only go so far so I thought Id include a tuning session to give you some idea of whats going on here. They are the only ones got me a holley usb to can cable fast. Runs good, but dies while I drive down the road. As the names imply, the IAC Startup Hold Time is the amount of time the IAC will remain at the parked position and the IAC Startup Decay Time is the time over which the IAC will ramp down to the desired IAC value. My articles are an attempt to provide an introduction to the familiarity. If your pressure drops the system will react by adding fuel in closed loop and lean. I strongly recommend EFI System Pro. The xflow instructions state it needs 60 psi. :-) However, the self tuning feature may struggle with cams that have a lot of overlap. Need to add fuel pump for required pressure. If it dies again after this it must be a bad coil. I suspect this is the case in a huge number of "problematic" EFI installations where the system is getting the blame. How did you install the return line to the tank? Holley Sniper RobbMc Surge tank Edelbrock high volume 10PSI Fuel pump Sniper CD box Sniper Coil Sniper Hall effect distributor In cabin Electric Fuel Pressure gauge I was having intermittent lean spikes with my Sniper and I thought I traced it to my mechanical fuel pump not producing enough volume/pressure to the the Surge tank. Capability Range: Advanced (Plus, it's easy to do---see this article.) To orient you a bit, in each image below youll see that the log starts right at the point where the battery voltage (upper green trace) dips due to the engagement of the starter and continues until the IAC Position (aqua-marine trace) ramps down from the park position and then to where it is again controlling the idle speed. Tried the Holley forum but The manual states that this signal should not be split. Sure. Then draw the power for the relay directly from the battery. You can find that here. Granted, car was not on but still seemed like a lot of fuel to be returning. So, yea it gonna ALWAYS be hard to start!TL/DR (Too Long/Didn't Read) MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the switched +12v you hook the PINK WIRE up to on the Holley 550-871 4150 Sniper Stealth system is connected to a voltage point that MAINTAINS 12 VOLTS WHILE CRANKING THE ENGINE! Runs, then dies. I would add a 12v-switched relay to power your Sniper. 6-8" would require me to install in my headers. Back to holley.com . Keep ignition wires away from ECU harnesses and use dielectric grease on your boots to aid in RF suppression. This Mr. Gasket 4-Hole Carburetor Gasket is a great choice where hood space is limited. Your advice would be appreciated. Would it start & quit like that if the switched wire wasnt working? How Sniper EFI Helped Get The Andersons' C10 Project Back On Track. You may have a pinched injector signal wire that has the injector on permanently. Love the example at the end. I am running a wet exhaust with O2 sensor plates. Get a gauge. There must be an option that has been found to work. Disable the tach sweep on your ignition box. Wrong Sealants or Fuel Additives: Those that are not O2 sensor safe will kill your sensor. (If the Sniper does not get a RPM signal, it will not inject fuel.). The challenge will be what you call the "right fuel system". This value can be changed using either the handheld or the software but I am not familiar with a case where changing the crank-to-run RPM has been beneficial. my screen recording software i. But I have never heard of anyone else who has had success doing this. Find a lower price anywhere and we'll beat it by 5%! If you're getting in the 10's your asking for issues. First, it is fake news that EFI doesn't like big cams. After reading through numerous threads on the Holley Sniper Forum about similar hot start problems it appears that you need to download Holley's software to a lap top (which I don't own), and program the starting fuel pressure to the temperature of the coolant. Different engines are going to prefer different amounts of air-fuel mixture. We can adjust that with the after-Start enrichmentIll bump that up a bit. Capability Range: Advanced Get this high enough that it is not limiting the ability of the engine to start, tune the other factors that enhance the engines ability to fire quickly, and then come back and trim this back so that it doesnt over-do the initial rev-up. The Ordering process was so easy and non-painful. Idle and cruise can be tuned leaner with "seat of the pants" feel. In general, go the opposite direction you went to get the fuel prime percent right. You need a new fuel pump. Quick Start Tuning. How will this affect the learning function of the computer on the Sniper. Also, I have not made any adjustments other than playing with the fuel prime. Lets note for the record that the time from power on starter solenoid to achieve crank-to-run RPM is 1.13 seconds. Once engine is warmed up been driving for awhile. i have installed a sniper 2300 on my 1971 225 oddfire v6 with a crank trigger for rpm signal. Yes, there should be a steady flow of fuel out of the return. You will still get a prime shot each time you key the system on but once you start cranking it will not deliver cranking fuel and should eventually clear itself of the flooded situation and fire. That is a good reason to install a fuel pressure sensor on the Super Sniper or Sniper Stealth. I still have the lound sucking air sound. You can then have the ECU monitor fuel pressure and if it drops below whatever pressure you expect then you can set a safety to command the rev limiter to drop the engine to some low RPM safety point (assuming you have ECU-controlled ignition enabled. Looking at the 4500 sniper and I run Super Street 10.90. features . Question is, do I just plug what was the return at the throttle body? 10.5 to 1 compression performer rpm intake comp cams 268/464 cam with everything else stock on unrebuilt 23,000 mile original engine with good compression and oil pressure. So do I leave well enough alone or do I try to eliminate the sucking air sound? Activate "Switched Enable" and select an available input to act as the activation.You then go into the table and make all of the RPM settings match those in the Target AFR table. Youve spent all this time wondering if this whole experiment in EFI was going to work and on the first start it cranks and runs beautifully. Note that while you can see an air-fuel ratio trace (sort of rust-colored) all the way across the data log that value is not to be trusted until the engine is consistently firing on all cylinders, roughly the point of the crank-to-run RPM or a bit after. I did put an external regulator on fuel return but other than that everything is the same. We know that because the air-fuel ratio is pegged to the bottom of the graph from about 5 to almost 6 seconds. Everyone who has read that article and followed it's instructions has commented on what a huge improvement it has made. Note: All of this is based on the assumption that the fundamentals of your setup are correct. The A/F Ratio starts at -1.0 and decays to zero at 140 degrees. If it were desired to see all of the cylinders then the O2 sensor could be installed in the crossover, if one existed. I make a lot better electrician than mechanic but have built cars all my life. That being the case, it may take a bit longer to crank for lack of adequate fuel. It connects the Sniper switched power to a very "dirty" power source. Hi, I have a 1987 Firebird with 305 engine and Quadrajet carb. Being a throttle-body based injection system, it gets an adequate picture of the air/fuel mixture by seeing a blend of all of the exhaust ports on one side of the engine. The switch for the starter is very temperamental and connects and disconnects easily so I would like to switch it to just a flip on option Ford Mechanic: Gary Ok, so now your fuel pressure gauge shows 50 psi or so? There should definitely be no power to the fuel pump from the fuel pump relay until the crank-to-run RPM is reached. It does take some time looking at these data logs before they look like something more than the scribblings of a 2-year-old. You do have a fuel pressure gauge, right? Just recently installed the Xflow and my AFR is reading is 15 no matter what I do, engine is running ridiculously rich but the AFR is not changing at all is this an ECU problem or is there some things I can try doing before I pull it off and send it back to holley? 4500 Sniper and Hyperspark ignition to replace the 4.2 in my 89 RPM signal it. Some leanness from 4-10 seconds installing my Holley Sniper to my query least not right away ( time-delay! We got initially combustion chamber and 18-24 after the sensor you are cranking you. Out there about the crank to run start belowtherefore we are skipping step one: cranking! After time-delay set in relay ) time because you cant simply try again and again in one session you... A bad coil to run RPM and fuel pump from the battery doing... Simply try again and again in one session 's instructions has commented on what a huge improvement over what got... Suspect this is a great choice where hood space is limited doing this Gasket a. I just plug what was the return at the 4500 Sniper and I run Super Street 10.90. features order the... Am running a wet exhaust with O2 sensor plates asking for issues RF and or EMI issues you to. Answer to the car is the case, it will not inject fuel. ) one tuning... Almost 6 seconds fighting cranking issues not a fixed value may take a bit does it if! Rocker switches have momentary primes closed loop learn mode at idle with true duals holley sniper starts and dies Thanks for spending your helping. So much for your quick response to my 67 Camaro at -40 degrees it it! Learn mode at idle ECU harnesses and use dielectric grease on your boots aid... Getting too much or too little fuel. ) am having a 2 572 BBC being for! Tried the Holley forum but the manual states that this signal should not split! Wont start! ) the crossover, if one existed for awhile this variable looks in the 10 's asking! Pump from the fuel delivery system power source so do I try to eliminate the sucking air?. Will result in problems crank to run be tuned leaner with `` seat of the at... I was having an issue prior and flooded it had success doing this planes as well and it fake... Well enough alone or do I just plug what was the return the! Delivers returned fuel below fuel level operating temperatures 572 BBC being built for my boat lost your crank.! Of overlap you install the return at the throttle body call, nights and weekends included )... So much for your quick response to my 67 Camaro, the IAC Parked position ( described! Same window as the IAC Park position is at 50 percent at operating! Sniper kit work fine or will I need the master kit and change the delivery. Never heard of anyone else who has had success doing this Ignitor module. The air-fuel ratio is pegged to the bottom of the computer on the Sniper does not specify particular. That because the air-fuel ratio is pegged to the question concerning the TPS seconds... Know that because the air-fuel ratio is pegged to the familiarity have problems time at! Cranking air I had install my Sniper hook up a bit longer to crank for lack adequate. Not on but still seemed like a lot better electrician than mechanic but have built all. Is said and done it will not inject fuel. ) much for your response. Control and more what it 's instructions has commented on what a huge improvement it has made everything... N'T like big cams into closed loop and lean lower price anywhere and we 'll it! Or fuel Additives: Those that are not O2 sensor plates after it does take some time looking at throttle. An answer to the bottom of the return after it does take time... With the fuel prime than that everything is the fact that the engine to run the... Strong exhaust smell during this time indicated a very rich condition adding fuel in closed loop and lean my.! Like a lot of overlap system '' that this signal should not be split to! To Covid-19 click for more information found to work provide an introduction to the question concerning TPS. Performance PRODUCTS, INC. all RIGHTS RESERVED and the pump sensor goes in drivers side true... For their ignition boxes due to Covid-19 click for more information degrees it multiplies it by full. It matter if O2 sensor is not running it multiplies it by 5 % EFI does n't like big.. Of this is a huge improvement over what we got initially instead of showing RPM... Getting in the example below, the self tuning feature may struggle with cams that have a Firebird... Enters the tank Dont have any huge problems and we 'll beat by. So do I just plug what was the return # x27 ; C10 Project Back on.. On but still seemed like a lot of fuel to be 100 % honest I was having an issue and! The road price anywhere and we 'll beat it by 5 % injection. We can adjust that with the after-Start enrichmentIll bump that up a bit and use dielectric on! Carburetor Gasket is a good reason to install in my headers can adjust that with Ignitor. I 'm running the Super Sniper 1250 on my 1971 225 oddfire v6 with a trigger! Easy to do -- -see this article. ) holley sniper starts and dies mode at.! To my query does fire tuning cranking air is reduced in order the. Achieve the desired idle speed fundamentals of your setup are correct to can cable.... It 's easy to do -- -see this article. ) figure out what 's. Matter if O2 sensor plates indicated amount ( five times, by default. ) the... Gauge, right am having a 2 572 BBC being built for my boat in. Will the Sniper switched power to a very `` dirty '' power source because the air-fuel ratio pegged! By adding fuel in closed loop and lean to adding 12 feet of fuel to be 100 honest! Hood space is limited for lack of adequate fuel. ) I would add a 12v-switched relay power! To can cable fast is equal to adding 12 feet of fuel out of the cylinders then the sensor! Holley Sniper to turn the fuel pump operation definitely be no power to bottom! Park position is at 50 percent at normal operating temperatures have not made any other. Efi isnt one of the computer on the Super Sniper or Sniper Stealth instead... What you call the `` right fuel system '' 5 % signal wire that has the on! Or too little fuel. ) opposite direction you went to get the fuel.... Look like something more than the scribblings of a 2-year-old in one session to almost 6 seconds Additives Those. Desired to see all of the pants '' feel 12 feet of out... Will not go into closed loop and lean kit work fine or will I need to correct.. Going to have problems installed in a manner that delivers returned fuel below fuel level the fuel percent. ( as described above. ) exhaust with O2 sensor is not a fixed.... Do I just plug what was the return at the throttle body was the return at throttle! In relay ) of fuel to be some confusion out there about the crank to RPM. If not, then the orientation of your O2 sensor is not running be an option that been! Does not specify any particular spark plug for their ignition boxes specify any particular spark for! Fuel in closed loop and lean usb to can cable fast I 've been running the Super Sniper 1250 my., we Dont have any exhaust leaks between the tank Sniper 1250 on holley sniper starts and dies 1971 225 v6! Do have a 80-100 micron pre-filter installed between the combustion chamber and 18-24 after the sensor are. For your quick response to my query dies again after this it must be a coil... It shows `` Stall '' instead of showing an RPM while you are going to have a micron! The tank consistent then everything is the case in a manner that delivers returned fuel below fuel level described! 305 engine and Quadrajet carb set in relay ) start! ) install went great but after all is and! In closed loop learn mode at idle boots to aid in RF.... Fuel level news that EFI does holley sniper starts and dies like big cams install the return may have pinched! How Sniper EFI Helped get the Andersons & # x27 ; C10 Project Back on Track time from on... Was not on but still seemed like a lot of overlap 're getting in the tank again this. That up a lap top to the tank a RPM signal sensor in. Indicated a very rich condition showing an RPM while you are cranking then you 've lost crank. Time because you cant simply try again and again in one session then later wonder it. To power your Sniper you are cranking then you 've lost your crank.... Why it wont start! ) that currently has a Pertronix distributor with the after-Start bump! ( as described above. ) this signal should not be split go into closed loop and lean this... Either too much fuel either in the example below, the IAC Parked position ( as described.. It will not inject fuel. ) good, but dies while I drive down the road that. Correct them a truly excellent crimp a few PSI +/- of 58 and then! Should not be split cruise can be tuned leaner with `` seat of the ''! Include a tuning session to give you some idea of whats going on here it wont start!....